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E50 Full - Supervision

[00:00:00] Simon Robinson: Welcome, I am Simon Robinson. I am a Advanced Clinical Practitioner partner and I work in primary care in Devon and today we're going to be discussing supervision in primary care. 

[00:00:18] Munir Adam: Hi, Munir Adam here and this is episode 50. That's amazing, isn't it? You know, that is 50 hours of recording. And actually about 500 hours of preparation and editing. Cause on average, cause I keep a track of this on an average takes about 10 hours worth of effort per episode. Vast majority of it has been done in our own time without any reimbursement because we're passionate about the topics and the speakers that we've had have been passionate about what they want to talk about and we, you know, hope to bring you information that will be helpful, useful to you. And I hope that we are doing that.

[00:00:53] 

Introduction

[00:00:53] Simon Robinson: So today we're going to be going through clinical supervision and what it means to us as primary care professionals. Supervision in my view used to be seen as an extra unnecessary and cumbersome activity leading to lots of wasted time with no real aim. However, today I'd like to discuss and go through some practical points of how we can put this into practice and actually how it's a really rewarding and supporting with our workforce development.

Why Discuss Clinical supervision

[00:01:22] Munir Adam: Okay, well might start by asking why are we talking about supervision. I suppose the obvious explanation for this is that there has been a significant expansion in n. in.

[00:01:44] a number of roles, a variety of roles in primary care and getting orientated in primary care. The change has been quite rapid. And while this creates lots of opportunities, it also creates risks if those taking on these new roles are not appropriately supervised. And along with having a variety of different professional roles, there's going to also be not just a professional supervising somebody within their own professional, but actually across professions as well.

[00:02:11] But also, there isn't just the new roles, even the existing roles, and if we take the most recent, well established where their supervision system in place. I guess that's with GPs, although GP supervision and training has been around for quite a while. There have been quite a lot of significant changes in the recent few years, particularly.

[00:02:30] For example, GP trainers now approved at scale. So yes, PCN wide approval, sometimes even a bigger entity than that can be approved in one go. So that one to one support perhaps isn't the same type as it used to be as we get at scale approvals and also approvals used to then be accompanied by re approvals and reassessments. And all of that seems to go. And once you're approved as a GP trainer, you're approved for life. 

[00:02:55] And so there are a whole variety of these sorts of changes, which actually means that you might not, unless you're proactive and thinking about this, you might not necessarily stop and think, well, actually, how is my supervision skills?

[00:03:10] How am I doing as a trainer or as a supervisor? And then you might be getting involved with supervising others as well. So what I'm saying is that regardless of whether you're an established, experienced, GP or nurse trainer, or a new supervisor for a new profession, such as, I don't know, supervising clinical pharmacists or paramedics or whatever it might be, or you're a paramedic who might be involved in supervising GPs, etc.

[00:03:35] This is an opportunity to learn or to reflect or to revise. 

[00:03:40] So, Si, what made you think of this topic? Tell me a little bit about your background and experience, if you would. . 

[00:03:46] Simon Robinson: Em, I think as I mentioned earlier, it is a bit of a nuisance area if I should say so myself.

[00:03:54] so. And I think as you mentioned, Lots of new professions coming to primary care. There's lots of literature out there from, from various providers. However, it's not particularly user friendly in my view.

[00:04:07] And I think working within a modern MDT, a very contemporary MDT, we need to start understanding backgrounds and where these different professions have come from ultimately. We need to understand what we need to do to support our workforce. 

[00:04:23] We know that the job is very stressful at times. We know we're very understaffed at times. We know we're very exceptionally busy. 

Creating a Safe and Effective Team Environment

[00:04:30] Simon Robinson: So what can we do to make our team safe, effective, but also give them the tools and the guidance to be able to to treat our patients I think this increases the understanding as well of different professions about their capabilities, maybe skills gaps, and what we need to do to, to fill these gaps to support them to move forward. I think as a supervisor, we need to be able to adapt to be able to cope with these different training providers to support our team. 

[00:05:01] OK, 

[00:05:01] Munir Adam: and I actually like the way use the word nuisance because are painted in a rosy way and supervision can be promoted in that way. Oh, it's going to be a wonderful opportunity. It's going to be a lovely experience. You're going to be making or supporting and developing a, And actually, that doesn't mean that we always get it right, and it doesn't mean that everything in the system is perfect. And it's useful to start with things that can be improved and be done differently. So yeah, let's do this.

[00:05:36] Right. So, Simon, I've been a trainer for a number of years. I've been supervising GPs mainly. I have some experience across different professions. When I used to work for Waltham Forest Training Hub, And then as part of a Northeast London wide structure, but actually, my strength was in GP training and I do remember doing the TTT course then, which used to be a bit more extensive and prolonged with essays and things compared to the route that GPs have to take now to become supervisors.

[00:06:06] In fact, it's become a lot more generic. And so a lot of it's in there, but you know what one forgets. It's all going to get a bit blurry for me. So I want to start with the basics. So let's start with this. 

Defining Clinical Supervision

[00:06:18] Munir Adam: What is clinical supervision and why is it important?

[00:06:23] Simon Robinson: Clinical supervision is a process of ongoing support and development of a supervisee. It's enables someone to fulfill their potential, not just for patient safety, but for their, for their aim to be the best practitioner they can possibly be. I often see it as an opportunity to have a safe space so that people can explore those those difficult Patient contacts and ask those questions, which they may not felt comfortable with with other people.

[00:06:58] So it's that safe space enabling them to to explore and it's able be supervisor to really push safely and develop that clinician to enable them to do what Their job really is a corner seen as a cornerstone of patient safety by looking at their abilities. It's also a CQC requirement. ARRS funding roles, they talk about supervision and how this needs to be undertaken.

[00:07:26] Being slightly rebellious, I Personally, see it as a workforce development tool rather than a you will. You have to do this. Yes, we do. But let's make it worthwhile. Let's make it fit for what we need as a group as a PCN. My main focus is on workforce development. How am I going to support that person? How am I going to increase their job satisfaction?

[00:07:48] And actually, how am I going to keep them employed?

[00:07:52] Munir Adam: Wow. You've said a lot of really useful things there. Let's see how much of this I remember. So one really important thing I heard from you is about patient care. So this is ultimately about providing patients with the highest degree of care by making sure the staff do what they can in the right way and I think the point you were making about well cqc expect that But let's not make this a tick box. Let's actually Really make it the best we can and job satisfaction is so important right now, isn't it? I mean, I don't know about all the professions, but you've got you know, nurses leaving the profession You've got doctors leaving the profession and other professionals coming on board who are sometimes You feeling a bit so unsure and sometimes not feeling that they are supported and supervised as effectively as they would like to.

Supervision vs. Line Management

[00:08:33] Munir Adam: So yeah, but just on that point actually, in terms of providing the right kind of supervision, some people will interpret supervision as effectively just being a form of line management, like you're the manager and you're going to monitor them, albeit in a nice way. Are they the same thing?

[00:08:55] Simon Robinson: In my view, no, they're not. And in some of the literature published, they're not as well. So line management would be looking more at the kind of the overall appraisal process and the overall objectives of the perhaps of an organization also looks at things like registration, whatever your regulator body is and how you fulfill those requirements.

[00:09:20] In my view, supervision is more of that supportive enabling the supervisee, giving them the tools, the support and guidance to fulfill their role. Not nec necessarily clinically, but also if they are teaching others. it's, it's more of that, that support role really.

[00:09:38] It's not quite good cop, bad cop, as I've sometimes said before. And sometimes these boundaries can blur slightly. So although I'm the employer and I'm also a c clinical supervisor. It's establishing what we're doing, and sometimes that can get a bit, a bit blurry. However, it's certainly when we've got supervision time, allowing the individual time, safe space to be able to go through the agenda and what they want to discuss in a safe environment.

[00:10:09] Munir Adam: Well, that sounds really positive. And certainly the term line management, to be honest, doesn't sound very positive, doesn't sound very welcoming or as power neutral, shall we say. Line management certainly doesn't sound power neutral at all. Very formal, yeah. So you find sometimes keeping that distinction isn't always, as easy and it gets blurred and, and I wonder one could argue maybe sometimes it's appropriate for it to get a little bit mixed.

[00:10:36] Simon Robinson: Well, I think I'm in a quite a privileged position of working very closely with the people I supervise anyway. So they know me as a, as a colleague as well as their supervisor. But it's actually having that time, having that close working relationship, but actually being able to step back and looking at the bigger picture and allowing them to understand Discuss areas they feel they need to perhaps develop on and so yeah, those boundaries do blur, but it's giving them the time and the space to be able to do that.

[00:11:11] Munir Adam: And you mentioned the magic word there, which was relationships, because that's often what it's all about, isn't it? if you've developed the relationship, you're in a much, both are in a much better position to actually produce something positive and benefit from it because you've got trust then and mutual respect and things like that.

[00:11:27] With line management I sense that as, okay, this is what we want you to do, whereas with supervision, you've mentioned a few times, a few things that, to do with the very, very learner centered approach.

[00:11:39] Simon Robinson: Yeah, absolutely. And as an example, I, I give my team again, who are a mixture of 12 different healthcare professionals physios, paramedics, nurses, pediatric nurses. And the example I always give, as a line manager, they're expected to be at or working towards an MSC, an advanced practice. That's a tick in the box. That's what we need to do 

[00:12:02] As a supervisor. I have a discussion with how they want to achieve that because there's so many different routes. So it's tailoring that to how they feel they want to do that education, providing they same point. But as we all know, we've all got families with different hours of working and certain routes and educational levels are very difficult, and it's how we're going to support . One size doesn't fit all. For instance, people on the apprenticeship, it's a fantastic opportunity, but for other people, it doesn't, that's not how they want to do it because of their child care, etc. So, line management, this is what we need to achieve. Supervisor, how do you want to achieve it?

[00:12:43] Munir Adam: Ah, I like that distinction, actually, that's really helpful, because how is very practical, isn't it? It's, it's not about the theory, it's not about what's in, what's on paper or what's on the contract. It's more about, well, how do we make this actually happen? All right, fantastic. So that is what a supervisor's role is.

The Role of the Supervisor

[00:13:02] Munir Adam: But could you say a bit more about that role? How would you summarize or how would you describe the role of the supervisor? 

[00:13:09] Simon Robinson: It's slightly more than a, than a peer, but it's, that's senior colleague who may been through various experiences and able to give fair experiences and, and to enable that person to achieve, what the supervisee needs, what they want, what their ambitions and desires are to be able to achieve in a effective way.

[00:13:30] Munir Adam: Hmm. Okay. All right. 

Considerations, Barriers, and Logistics

[00:13:32] Munir Adam: Okay. Well, Si, that all sounds great. But you mentioned near the start that sometimes you know, things, what was it you said? It's sometimes going to be a nuisance. Let's think about what are some of the considerations, you know, if we want to get this right, what are the sort of things that you have to think about? What are some of the barriers to doing this effectively? And essentially, the logistics of conducting supervision.

[00:13:56] Simon Robinson: So some of the barriers, as I've alluded to is the time booking out. So one of my top tips is obviously the early planning. We know we're going to do this. We know we're going to need to do supervision. So it's that early planning, that early discussion with perhaps with the operations team to say, I need this a set period of time whenever to be able to undertake this activity. Where are we going to do this? I always allow my supervisees to pick. where they want to do this. usually in the the staff room or, even in the cafe, perhaps to give them the opportunity to empower them where they want to undertake this.

[00:14:31] Book, booking the time. We're not, we don't want to be rushing things. We want to allow them and give them the time to discuss. One of the most fundamentals really is the documentation and how we record this. Really, really important, especially if you are supervising 12 People. I struggle to remember what the conversation I had the following day with teams, so it's having that clear documentation bullet points. So at the next time we do that supervised session, you can see where we're at and we can keep logs to ensure that we are progressing well, or if we're not progressing well, we can re have a conversation. So we've got that really clear logs. And again, for things like CQC and for ARRS funding, we need to have records of supervision.

[00:15:13] Munir Adam: And how do you do that then? And who does it? Do you do it or does the supervisee do it?

[00:15:18] Simon Robinson: I usually get the supervisee to do it. It's their journey. I will obviously record that we've had the session, but the content is usually recorded. And then we both have a look at it. We've got a, an HR system or we even use 14 fish and we have that uploaded so that we, we've both got access to it and we can just keep a bit of an eye on it and where we go.

[00:15:38] Munir Adam: And is is it written summaries or, or you want to get lots and lots of detail?

[00:15:42] Simon Robinson: it's a written summary bullet points, keeping it really simple, but enables just a memory jogger of what we discussed. And if there's a, a certain point when that's highlighted and gone into a bit more depth,

[00:15:55] Munir Adam: Okay. And did you say you do that on 14 fish generally? Is

[00:15:58] Simon Robinson: but it's usually kept 14 fish, but we also have the other an HR system cipher, which we use just, just to keep things ease of access.

[00:16:07] Munir Adam: All right. Yeah. Well, you mentioned about yeah, record keeping really important. You mentioned about the location. And I like what you said. You encourage the supervisee to tell you where they want to have that session. So they feel comfortable. Cool. And obviously the big one being time. Is that a challenge generally where you, are you, are you the one who would make decisions about the time? Or, or, or do you find yourself in the receiving end where you're essentially left to do lots of supervision and not enough time to do it?

[00:16:35] Simon Robinson: So, time away from our clinical role is always difficult to get, isn't it? What time away me, the cold face is really difficult. However, my arguments always been that by having this protected time, we're actually enabling our staff to fulfill their potential to ultimately have a safe, effective practitioner who feels supported and happy in their role.

[00:17:00] My argument has always been that should take precedence over time. We make time. We have to find time to do it. It is a CQC requirement, as I've said, but ultimately I always offset the potential and the benefits. And I think, I think starting when you have a new member of staff at the beginning of their journey, if you like, and see their confidence and their productivity and their safety levels grow is really, really rewarding.

[00:17:30] And that, to me, always enables me to argue for time here. I'm lucky. I have time within my, I do eight sessions, five clinical, three management, and I managed to get most of that done in my management time. So it's just planning ahead and getting that time where you can.

[00:17:49] Munir Adam: Yeah, I often find it difficult in the first few weeks when I have a trainee because I do have a limited amount of protected time to fulfill the functions of a supervisor. And a new trainee will have lots of protected time in that sense. They'll only be expected to see maybe two or three patients during the initial clinics of two or three hours length.

[00:18:09] And of course, they'll get better and better at that. But Even at the early stage, the amount of time I have is no more than I will throughout their six months or twelve months with me. So, it can be more challenging at the early stage of somebody joining, isn't it? You have to invest quite a lot.

[00:18:28] Simon Robinson: I think one of the issues we have many of these trades coming to primary care have no experience within primary care. So they may have some fantastic transferable skills, very experienced within their own area, but the shock of coming from perhaps secondary care to primary care, and they feel, wow, what's what's what's happening here? And it's very difficult to support that transition and really bringing out their potential within that primary care process. So again, for me, that's really paramount that I get. Booking that time and I really guide them because 

[00:19:07] A couple of years ago there was some research undertaken about paramedics moving into primary care and they worked out that the average length of time was six months before they left and went back to where they came from the ambulance service, perhaps because of

[00:19:20] Right, really.

[00:19:22] my argument would be about the perhaps a recruitment process, but also.

[00:19:27] Again, it hammers home, the importance of that supervision, that supporting with their development and, and giving that time to welcome them to primary care gently, but also guide them with their development.

Cross-professional Supervision 

[00:19:40] Munir Adam: Well, the example you gave there, you'd be able to relate to it quite well, because that's your background as well as a paramedic, right? Do you find this as a challenge? Something about How we're going to be embedding people into primary care if those people are from a different profession to our own. Do you think that matters? Is that a challenge? Or do you feel that supervision is essentially a generic skill and the profession of your supervisee doesn't matter so much?

[00:20:08] Simon Robinson: I, as mentioned already have a very diverse MDT. They've all come from many different backgrounds. However, the, the, the only unifying factors they're coming to primary care, which as you well aware of is a very diverse array of conditions. You name it, it comes to primary care. So from that point of view. It's in enabling them from their particular backgrounds and me guiding them with that support to identify those hidden areas of perhaps training and development which they're not so confident with. 

[00:20:43] I'll give example of pediatrics for instance. I employ two very, very capable and very, very high quality members of the team who are from a physio background. They've come from various different care teams. They're very, very good but pediatrics wasn't really their strong point. So it's in how we support with that journey to allow them to safely manage what training do they need, guide them to how we're going to undertake that training in a manner which they're going to get the best benefit out. And then currently now they're very confident with those pediatrics and that ongoing support. So it's allowing them to identify perhaps the areas from their traditional background, which they're not quite comfortable with. Completely confident with. 

[00:21:24] So my own experience, I trained in the military. So a lot of it was trauma and learning some of the, the complexities of polypharmacy. It was certainly an eye opener and something, something I had to develop and learn as I've gone through my ACP training and journey. So it's having that supervisor who understands that they're not going to be bad they all sing and all dance in practition to start with, but how we support and guide them to be safe, but also effective and to keep moving forward.

[00:21:55] Munir Adam: Hmm. I think I'm still figuring out how to sort out polypharmacy. I don't think you can quite master it ever, isn't it? So, well, that's reassuring to hear because there's a lot more of that happening now where you've got a profession supervising somebody from a different profession or as in your case, a whole team.

[00:22:11] And yeah, I think, I think you're right. I think a lot of it is about just thinking from their viewpoint about where they're coming from and what their needs might be. And perhaps when you're supervising the same profession, you can take a lot of things for granted because you're, in a sense, you might already be on the same wavelength.

[00:22:29] But even within that everybody's experience, even within one profession, is so different from somebody else from the same profession. So there is something about not making assumptions, I guess, isn't, isn't there?

[00:22:40] Simon Robinson: Yes. You know , I quite openly say that every day's a learning day and I certainly learn from, from team members through their, their different experiences. And as I'm sure we look at any profession within primary care, certainly with GP training. different experiences and different placements and backgrounds are my GP colleagues have it's using that to our strength, that diverse strength who, who do we know who's done perhaps? Who do, where do we ask? And it's that, safety. And that really binds a team together when you can support others and, and to enable them to , to make those safe and good patient choices and decisions.

[00:23:17] Munir Adam: Okay. So you mentioned about the time factor, which I think will always be a challenge. Some have it easier than others. About having a protected space as well, that is appropriate for the task. And what was the third one? And oh yeah, and documentation. Is there any other barriers or challenges or logistics that we need to think about?

[00:23:39] Simon Robinson: So, the attitude perhaps of some supervisees. Luckily enough, I've not had to manage this for some time. There's some work being carried out by Professor Deborah Harding into What we call permeability of, of supervision. And that basically is looking at the the supervisee and their ability, their self-awareness and the ability to kind of understand perhaps some of the guidance they're given and about the feedback and how they manage that feedback to really enable the supervisor to, to help shape their practice.

[00:24:14] For instance, the highly impermeable person may not want to to seek guidance or may not take heed of the guidance and may come across as being really arrogant or overconfident, where on the flip side of this, you've got your highly permeable. You may seem quite fragile, very underconfident and we know people.

[00:24:35] Perhaps like this in our practice that the people who have a risk averse and the people who take too many risks and I've seen it a couple of times with members of staff who, who have been at one extreme or the other. And it's how we get through these barriers to to support with their development.

[00:24:49] And it can be really tricky and it can be a lot of hard work and a lot of time taken to, to be able to deliver it. But it's about the patience. It's about having time and sometimes I just give objectives and points for us to work on to be able to overcome these, barriers.

Support for Supervisors

[00:25:05] Munir Adam: On this point, when you have a supervisee or a learner who's, shall we say, you as a supervisor perceive as being difficult, you're finding it difficult to fulfill your job because of something about their personality, their nature, or as you say, their permeability. In a situation like this, would you feel that you have access to any support from anywhere. Or do you feel pretty much left on your own to sort this out?

[00:25:29] Simon Robinson: So I have a great team. I have a great team of partners. And we do discuss, we have training meetings. And I have a team of very good operational managers and I think as a supervisor, we need not take all that responsibility just on our shoulders. If we've concerns With perhaps how this has been undertaken is to have that discussion as I've openly say people for somebody's always may have a tip somebody may have that experience before and how we manage this how we go about dealing with this issue so it's no longer an issue so yeah, 

[00:26:02] We openly have discussions with other supervisors about issues strengths and and where we move forward and I think that perhaps as With my team make, perhaps make comments about certain individuals performance and it's been able to have those discussions. Well, actually we are doing this at the moment. They are undergoing this training at the moment, and this is how we are. So it's just having that overall conversation. Just to have that bigger picture of, and giving people the, the ideas of what's actually happening.

[00:26:33] Munir Adam: hmm, so you mentioned a really important point there....

[00:26:48] unless you're able to manage them as well. 

[00:26:50] But also I'm certainly in favor of using the expertise of others around and not feeling that I'm totally left on my own to do it.

[00:26:57] But the response you've given to very much relies on you being somebody who works in such an organization where, where that kind of support exists. Is there anything. Is there something that, that others can tap into that you're aware of? Perhaps if they're in a smaller organization where perhaps they don't have as much cross team support as perhaps they should.

[00:27:19] Okay.

[00:27:20] Simon Robinson: Training hubs, local training hubs if they're starting to look at courses, I think you mentioned earlier about the the how the trainer trainers courses are getting very more more of an MDT approach, but they certainly are in Devon. And I think that having a word and discussion with your training hub can help.

[00:27:36] There's quite a lot of guidance out there with regards, certainly for advanced practitioners and people undertaking that route by the primary care academies. They have lots of literature. The primary care Academy has some very good overall supervisor checklists and things like that.

[00:27:54] Just very simple guidance of where that supervisor needs to be out and what you need to do to undertake this role and and further documented literature.

[00:28:03] Munir Adam: Okay. It might be a good idea to include a few of those references in the show notes, isn't it?

[00:28:07] So that's quite a few useful things you've mentioned. Any other barriers or logistics that , you would want to mention? 

Professional boundaries 

[00:28:13] Simon Robinson: So we talk about professional boundaries and that's certainly a challenge. Certain professions can do certain things which others can't. Again, boundaries to me are a guidance, not something to adhere to. So if members of my team are suitably trained and supported to undertake these procedures, such as minor surgery, joint injections, they may be insured and they can do that.

[00:28:38] Certainly when I do joined as first paramedic in England and Wales back in 2015 to work in primary care. There were so many perceived barriers about what I could and couldn't do. For me, that was just a giving me a challenge really to, get through these barriers. So there's still legislation in place, things such as paramedics can't do F med threes and things.

[00:29:00] That's law. We can't do it. But up until recently, 2019, Paramedics couldn't prescribe, which they can do now. So it's how those barriers for certain professions are in place. We have ways around them. Not being able to do FMED 3s is not really a problem. So it's just, being aware of some of these barriers.

[00:29:21] ,there's quite a few myths out there about, for instance, nurses on my team can't manage pregnant ladies and things like that. That is not entirely true. So it's just having those conversations about of the perceived barriers and actually talking to the NMC and getting some guidance. That's, that's actually a myth and it's untrue.

[00:29:41] We talked about the gaps in training, certain training elements, which perhaps some professions are not may have not come across before

[00:29:51] Munir Adam: Okay, that's that's fantastic. So, so quite a lot really, quite a lot of things to think about and potential challenges. I want to go back to what you said right near the start which was that it can be quite annoying. Do you want to just say a bit more about that? 

[00:30:05] Simon Robinson: So supervision until we. We really took an understanding of, of what we were trying to achieve and how we were going to do it was, it was, in my view, was a complete waste of time. And I've have recently had conversations with other PCNs in the UK who has still got that kind of feeling that yet again, it's another tick box exercise do with no benefit.

[00:30:29] However, my view and what I've learned and how I do it now, as I've, as I've learned, gone through my journey is that you plan ahead, you have that good discussion with, with the with the person you're supervising and you really build up that professional working relation to be able push, push forward.

[00:30:47] It. no longer a nuisance. It's a, in my view, a vital component of supporting and developing that team very tailored to that individual. And I, I wouldn't be able to do my role unless we had that time.

[00:31:03] Munir Adam: Got it. Yeah, that makes sense. So a job worth doing is worth doing well, isn't it? Do you enjoy being a supervisor? 

[00:31:09] Simon Robinson: Absolutely. It's good. We mentioned for people come into primary care, in my view, in the past that people came thinking it was an easy option and then realizing that actually, oh, what have I come into? And seeing members of staff who perhaps have slightly misguided. 

[00:31:25] However, as I'm seeing now, in fact, I've got a new member of staff starting on monday who's come from a secondary care environment who has, who has come to experience what it's like in primary care, but it's great, fantastic seeing the enthusiasm, those transferable skills and how that person is really going to fit in with our MDT. 

[00:31:46] I'm lucky I've got a very good, enthusiastic team. It's very good seeing people through their educational and their developmental journey to be able to deal with some of those patients. perhaps I would never have dreamed of managing and how they've developed auditing and looking back at their when they've started through at different points through their journeys as well and giving them that that audit figures to see how you know they're individually doing it is very rewarding.

[00:32:12] Munir Adam: Hmm. Okay. Well, Si, you're a very experienced supervisor. You've been doing it for a while. And you're very much involved in supervising a team with different professionals. 

Advice for Supervisors

[00:32:23] Munir Adam: What advice would you give or what message would you give to others who might be listening who are involved in role as supervisor, particularly from allied health professionals as well.

[00:32:36] Simon Robinson: Plan ahead, get that protected time and really have that conversation with whoever you're supervising about what their views is of how they want to achieve their aims. Really get to understand that individual, their motivation of their role and get them to lead on a lot of the discussions about how they're going to achieve that.

[00:32:58] Be there to guide them. And I think that's one of the main parts for me is, being there and having that ability to guide people and giving them a safe space to be able to ask those perhaps they see silly questions or, areas that they're not so confident on and being able to have those difficult discussions about patients they feel they may have not perhaps managed as they should.

[00:33:20] Munir Adam: Yeah, it's not just about the be nice, but actually if there's something that needs challenging, it needs challenging as well. And if that's done well, that can also be part of having a fulfilling role as a supervisor as you're, as you're having Si. And you know, one thing that I've learned and is: that supervision, you can never become an expert. You know, you're always learning and it's always evolving and changing. And I know over the years that I, I'm constantly learning about how to do this right. And I still enjoy it as well, but challenges come and I think, well, hang on, I've not really dealt with this scenario before, and that becomes a learning opportunity, but then it'd be boring, isn't If it was always the same thing. And I'm certainly not going to call it line management, that's for

[00:34:03] Simon Robinson: no. My view, it's it's more rewarding. Far more rewarding. for listening.

[00:34:08] 

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

[00:34:08] Munir Adam: Okay, guys. We hope the listeners find this encouraging to take on role of supervisor, if that's something you were thinking of doing or to continue your role or to look at it in a different perspective, deal with any challenges that you're facing, and if you're somebody who's a supervisee hopefully you already have a fantastic supervisor.

[00:34:26] If you don't then talk to someone, talk to your training hub. Is that the right answer to give Si,

[00:34:31] Simon Robinson: I think so, yeah, it's don't fear supervision plan ahead, it's a long term game here, plan ahead, it's very rewarding, but yeah, as you just said your, your training hubs will be able to support you and give you some guidance if necessary.

[00:34:45] Munir Adam: Fantastic. That's it. So I think that's pretty much the end. So as Si, you mentioned a few, minutes ago about some relevant resources we'll include that in the show notes. But that's it for today. Until next time, keep well and keep safe.